I’ve been contemplating writing this for a while. I kept putting it off for fear of backlash. Bloggers are a vocal bunch and I have no desire to be lynched but I feel like it needs to be said and that I need to defend my job.
I have worked with bloggers for 3 1/2 years now. First as a PR Exec and Social Media Manager, then in SEO and now my role is a terrifying and mildly confusing amalgamation of them all. In that time I have met and spoken to a lot of truly lovely people. Blogging has a real community spirit and the majority of that community are kind, funny and genuinely lovely.
At the same time that I was moving around job roles, a lot started to change in the online world and as such, over the past 12 months, I have seen a lot of negativity about people who work in PR & SEO. I have read posts demonising us, outraged tweets, and full on front line attacks of individuals and agencies. And it makes me sad.
I’m sad because we all get tarred with the same brush. And I’m angry that there is a certain element of hypocrisy in much of what is said.
Let me be really clear – 95% of the bloggers I have worked with are amazing. They are kind, warm and funny and without them I would not have a job. I respect the community hugely (so much so that I have joined it– obviously).
The other 5% are not.
In order for these relationships to work to everyone’s benefit we all need to be honest with each other. SEO’s and PR’s need to be honest about what they want. They need to be truthful about Google, the ASA and disclosure. SEO’s and PR’s should never tell you not to disclose something you have done for them. They should also never lie about it and try to mislead you. Sadly it happens all too often. T from Mummy Barrow wrote an excellent post a couple of months back highlighting this very issue – if you haven’t read it, I suggest you do! And please believe me – there are good SEO’s & PR’s out there that will never lie like this and that will be completely understanding of how important your blog (and the bloody law!) are to you!
But it’s not just agencies that are in the wrong. And I guess this is my point. Bloggers should be honest too. I have lost count of how many times I have sent out an expensive product to be reviewed and then never heard from the blogger again. My emails either get ignored or, on some occasions, my email address completely blocked. Is that fair? Is it fair to tweet and write posts about how awful these agencies are as a general rule, tarring the whole industry with the same dirty brush? Is it fair that we are consistently being accused of lying (even when the majority of us don’t) only to be lied to or misled or sent aggressive emails from the very people writing the posts?
There have to be limits. I have made plenty of mistakes, particularly when I was learning and definitely when things have needed to be done in a rush. But we all make mistakes – the only difference between us is that you have power. You have so much more power than we do. You also have friends; lots and lots of supportive friends who all have power too. The power to influence and to shape the way people work with you. The power to be vocal when things aren’t as you’d like them to be.
That’s a pretty amazing thing. But maybe sometimes it could be used to better the SEO’s & PR’s that aren’t acting appropriately. Maybe instead of a Twitter rampage, a simple email back explaining why what they are asking is inappropriate is all it takes. Ultimately, the only way people will learn is if we communicate and are open about what everyone wants to gain from a partnership. Then we can all make informed decisions about who we choose to work alongside.
For the record, I am talking about silly errors on the PR/SEO’s part. The ones that might have offered a product that isn’t quite in-line with your blogs theme and the ones that are clearly not used to communicating with bloggers so send silly bulk emails out. They might be new; they are probably inexperienced. They will learn.
But those that offer up barefaced lies and try to mislead you are on their own! As far as I’m concerned, if they are trying to enforce non-disclosure, are lying about the difference between followed or no followed links or are trying to bribe you with money to do something you are not happy with, they are in the wrong.
Same applies for bloggers – if you know you want to no follow a link, tell people beforehand, don’t just put it up and then refuse to reply to emails requesting it’s changed. You might be surprised at how accepting people will be of that. If you don’t have time to do a product review or didn’t like what you were sent, just say so. We will probably be totally fine with it and may even be able to sort an alternative.
Just…Don’t…Lie! Everyone. Stop Lying.
Disclosure – this is a brain dump – all thoughts are entirely my own!
ScissorsPaperRock Sometimes Bloggers Lie Too
36 Comments
mummybarrow
August 9, 2013 - 11:14 amAs a blogger, who has seen all sorts of PR and SEO approaches, some appalling, some fantastic, some that just leave me indifferent, I appreciate this post.
It helps to get some perspective sometimes.
i get really grumpy when I feel I am being chased and hassled for a review of something and and demand to know the date it will be live. Sometimes even before the product has actually arrived!
But seeing it now as the PR / SEO following up because maybe they have been let down in the past as you have, makes me see it from a different point of view.
I too have heard of bloggers requesting products, not because they are interested in them particularly but because they want free stuff, with a promise of a mention or a review that never appears. And that is not on.
Thanks for showing it from the other side.
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 11:23 amI completely agree.
The ones chasing frantically likely have deadlines and targets to meet. I personally would always mention a date that I would *like* something to be up when talking to someone and then only re-approach if that time has passed.
With my previous blog I had similar experience on people chasing before the item had even arrived and it’s incredibly annoying and over bearing. I think again, it comes as a result of pressures elsewhere and also inexperience. Seeing it from both sides has been so useful for me when knowing exactly how people should be spoken to and when you can follow up with someone.
At the end of the day we are all the same and all make mistakes but if there was just a little more communication these issues could probably be avoided. It’s the “us” vs “them” mentality that makes this so hard.
Alice
August 9, 2013 - 11:35 amOh what a brilliant insight into the ‘other side’. I find a good clean approach is always best from both sides. I always ask upfront about what specific links they want etc as it makes life easier. But I have to hold my hands up, I often have a backlog of emails so I do neglect to reply sometimes but there is a reason behind it, my life is bloody hectic and my blog often takes a backseat to hospital stays and appointments. So to all you PR’s out there I am sorry about that, don’t hate me. Other than that, I do get annoyed with spammy ‘this might interest your readers’ press releases but in general I’ve found PR’s and SEO’s to be pretty good.
Love the post. Keep up the good work xx
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 1:52 pmOh god Alice!
Don’t get me started on the mass press release “this will interest your readers” garbage!! Utter crap!
If you are wanting to work with a blogger you need to make sure what you have is actually relevant for them – not just send out press releases and rubbish willy nilly in the hope of getting some coverage! That is a major pet peeve!
I don’t think anyone gets annoyed with people that don’t reply to emails due to a backlog! Just those that don’t *ever* reply when you’ve already sent them something!
Thanks so much Alice 🙂
xxx
Mammasaurus
August 9, 2013 - 11:42 amExactly this! If all parties are clear and open about what they expect from the arrangement from the off then it goes waaaaaaay smoother! 🙂
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 11:48 amSo true!
Sometimes I feel like because bloggers have been misled in the past from the “naughty” SEO’s and PR’s, they want to have a bit of revenge and don’t deliver on things that have been agreed or deliver something different. It’s only a handful and to be honest it’s likely the agencies to blame for causing problems in the first place. If we all talk, which we are all more than capable of doing, then life would be so much simpler!
For some reason, what we as agencies’ do is still veiled in a cloak of secrecy much of the time. It’s like everyone is too scared to be honest about what they need out of a piece of work so they lie, they mislead and then they just don’t even reply to bloggers who are just being honest with them!
So stupid!
Kelly Innes (@domesticgoddesq)
August 9, 2013 - 11:42 amI love this post Kelly- thank you for writing it.
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 11:49 amThanks Kelly. That genuinely means a lot.
I was pretty worried about posting it in case there was backlash (from either direction) but I think if I hadn’t, I would just be perpetuating everything that I feel is wrong about it all!
Molly - Mother's Always Right
August 9, 2013 - 11:49 amIt’s great to see the picture from the other side if the fence. I completely agree! For what it’s worth, I’ve worked with plenty of PR and SEO bods who are brilliant – great at their job, professional and up front about what they want. As with all industries, there are bound to be exceptions to the tile! Great post.
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 11:51 amI totally agree Molly!
As with bloggers – some are so utterly phenomenal that I go back time and time again because I love working with them – some though end up on my little naughty list!
As with life, there are some wonderful people and some that are a little flakey! (I know a fair few of those in the “real” world too 😉 )
thanks so much for your comment 🙂
marisworld
August 9, 2013 - 11:55 amIt’s refreshing to hear a voice from ‘the other side’
Personally I try to stay away from all the nastiness, I create my own work relationships and so far so good. I must admit sometimes my inbox is absolutely heaving and I just don’t get around to replying to everyone’s request which is a shame but there are only so many hours in a day.
I love my work as a blogger and will continue to better myself and my blog as I plod along my merry way.
Thanks for the great post
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 12:08 pmThanks Mari!
I think from our side of things we totally accept that we might not get a reply to begin with – if what we have for you isn’t interesting/we are contacting someone we know is busy then that’s absolutely fine (or at least for me it is!).
Bloggers aren’t just bloggers – they are also people with actual lives. Often very busy lives and if you don’t have time to reply then that’s that!
If it’s something that could really work for you and your readers then we know you’ll get in touch at some point and I for one am willing to wait!
It’s the bloggers (from across all niches and genres) that insist on taking things and *then* not replying that gets my goat!
Thanks so much for the kind words 🙂
Emma
August 9, 2013 - 11:59 amI agree too, everyone needs to be honest. I cringe when I see a twitter moan about agencies or PR’s. Bloggers need to be as professional as the agencies they seek to work with. A conversation can usually iron out any issues.
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 12:10 pmExactly Emma!
Sometimes there really seems to be a double standard in place.
Bloggers go on a Twitter rampage about a person, brand or agency and there is nothing that can be done about it. No higher power for the agency etc. to complain to.
But imagine if a brand or agency started sending angry tweets about an individual blogger! There would be hell to pay!
Mutual respect is so important and just gets so easily overlooked by both parties sometimes!
Stacey Corrin
August 9, 2013 - 12:09 pmPersonally i haven’t really had any bad experiences with PR and SEOs, perhaps I’m just one of the lucky ones. It’s really interesting to see what it’s like on the other side of fence though.
I think because our blogs are so important to us, we forget that mostly blogging isn’t our full time job. Therefore it’s difficult for some people to see that what you do IS your job and one that can be lost. Humility and cooperation on both sides, would go a long way and perhaps make the experience much less stressful.
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 12:14 pmThanks Stacey!
I find it really encouraging that you haven’t had any bad experiences and it’s really nice to hear! From my side of things, I can sometimes get really down about the fact often the only feedback about “this industry” we see online is negative. It make me worry about the pre-conceptions people will have about me and what I do. So it’s really nice to hear that you have had positive experiences!
I guess it’s the same with anything though -you buy a kettle from amazon and it breaks immediately. So you write a negative review. You buy a kettle that works and that’s it – it’s just a kettle and you use it.
Humility and cooperation are exactly what we need 🙂
Jane
August 9, 2013 - 12:25 pmgreat post, I think like every market there are people who will use and abuse. If everyone is honest from the outset then this can work.!
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 12:33 pmExactly Jane!
Seems so simple when we say it doesn’t it!
Sandy Calico
August 9, 2013 - 1:05 pmFascinating to hear it from the other side.
I suspect that some bloggers (the ones who prefer to make a noise about a perceived error, rather than try to resolve it amicably) wouldn’t be quite so brash and unprofessional if they were suddenly face-to-face with the PR.
Sometimes it takes maturity and confidence to act honestly – on both sides.
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 1:20 pmThanks Sandy!
I agree – and the same vice versa – if the PR/SEO was face to face with a blogger, would they be so quick to ask them to break the law/lie to their face? I suspect not!
Tired Mummy of Two
August 9, 2013 - 1:26 pmAwesome point of view and so true!
I have been guilty of forgetting to review something in a particularly busy month but an email apology sorted that out pretty quickly
Its all about communication in this business and it is a business which I think people tend to forget. We need professionalism and not responding, blocking or being rude is not inline with being professional.
Kelly
August 9, 2013 - 1:31 pmI agree Laura!
I think everyone is guilty of having busy months. It happens on the other side too – we get so busy that we completely forget to reply to a bloggers email. Totally unintentional but these things happen!
Just talking openly makes life so sooooo much easier!
Alexander Residence
August 9, 2013 - 8:54 pmGreat post Kelly, I’ve really enjoyed working with you. It all comes down to being professional, as Laura and you stress, on both sides. I’ve always treated representatives of brands and agencies with the same respect I would have done my colleagues as a teacher. I’m all, as Sandy says, for trying to resolve things privately and amicably. I’ve learnt lots from being open and professional with people and from having a positive attitude as much as possible. Saddens me to see people burn their bridges and damage their reputation publicly over trivialities!
Kelly
August 10, 2013 - 1:38 pmTrivialities are exactly what they are much of the time! I suppose it’s the nature of things moving online – things get tweeted/facebooked before people have really thought through whether that’s the best option to resolve the situation.
Thank you Penny! 🙂 I love working with you too and it’s exactly the sort of relationship that benefits everyone because it’s honest and upfront!
Jenny from Cheetahs In My Shoes
August 9, 2013 - 9:04 pmBrilliant post Kelly – working with anyone, be it brand, PR, SEO, colleague or someone else is about building relationships – and relationships work best when built on a basis of trust, communication and honesty. People do business with people, not a brand or a product and every side of the party needs to remember that.
Everyone is human, we all make mistakes and hopefully we learn from them, public humiliation helps no-one and we must all remember that. Honesty, integrity and openness – that’s what works.
Kelly
August 10, 2013 - 1:41 pmVery well put Jenny!
Sometimes it’s hard for people to remember that the person on the other side of the email chain is just a person with their own priorities. The PR/SEO is looking after the interests of the brand and the blogger is looking after the interests of the site they have worked so hard to build up!
Actually Mummy
August 9, 2013 - 9:05 pmWhat a refreshing post. You are right that everyone is on a learning curve, and if we were all professional and scrupulous, things would be so much better. Sadly I’ve just published almost the exact same post about bloggers, and promoted one from last year about blaggers. It seems that in every area of life the 5% ruin the reputation of the other 95. I wish it could be different. One day I hope it will be, as people like you speak out.
Kelly
August 10, 2013 - 1:45 pmThanks so much Helen 🙂
Where is your post? I couldn’t spot it on the blog but I’d love to have a read!
Sadly you are right – it doesn’t matter what profession you are in or what social circles you travel in, there will always be a certain sense of ‘tarring’ from others unfortunately.
AtoZ Mummy
August 10, 2013 - 8:24 amThis is a really interesting read for me. I am relatively new to blogging and am still finding my way through the murky waters of what’s allowed, what’s legal, what’s frowned upon, what’s a lie and when someone is basically trying to take the piss. In 3 months I have stumbled across all of these, I have fallen for one piss take and told another one where to go. More importantly though I have encountered some lovely SEOs and PRs and some absolutely wonderful bloggers. Thank you for writing this and the comments above are also food for thought.
Kelly
August 10, 2013 - 1:50 pmAnd murky it is Kat!
I think much of it comes down to personal preference to be honest. Some people will be OK with potentially pissing off Google and some people won’t. There is no hard and fast rule (obviously with disclosure there is because it’s a legal requirement) but as long as you are doing things with your own site that you personally feel comfortable with you will be fine!
There is so much support out there for new bloggers (particularly from many of the people that have commented above) that you can soon find your feet and also decide where your “line” is.
And a gentle email back to the piss takers explaining that you are not a mug usually does the trick 😉
Pinkoddy
August 10, 2013 - 12:10 pmWhat a great post – yes we are all learning. I think the main issue for me is the lying about budgets too – (like saying there isn’t one at all but when we know blogger x,y & z got £££s for it.
Kelly
August 10, 2013 - 1:59 pmThank you Joy 🙂
Yes I agree, that is a big bug bear of mine. I think more openness is required around this. Often it can be because you have two separate people working on the same account with differing opinions about what a blog is “worth”, as well as a budget to stick to.
Sometimes it’s because there are restrictions based on how old a blog is/how many followers you have on Twitter etc.
Sometimes it’s just people taking the piss!
Either way I think you should feel comfortable asking the SEO/PR about *why* someone else is receiving more. They may be able to answer that based on requirements they have – or they may realise they are being a bit of a dick and offer you a more appropriate amount.
Although from my point of view, we should be working harder to create engaging ways of having bloggers involved with brands that have less of a focus on the traditional “paying you to host X, Y, Z” or “paying you to add this content to your site”.
It’s far better for everyone all round if we are building better relationships that work for everyone and that we can come back to time and time again that just paying for a quick fix
Cakesphotoslife (Angie)
August 10, 2013 - 5:00 pmWhat a great post, I do love to see from the other side of the fence, I am always honest about my time scale, like this week for instance I have replied and explained the post wont be live before next weekend, if its earlier then that’s all good but later is not fair without a good reason and explaining, I also expect the PR’s/SEO’s to respect that if not good enough they will tell me or agree with that time, I also understand they have deadlines, I recently had one that I explained i was going on holiday and it wouldn’t be until I return, they sent the product it arrived 2 days before I was leaving, the day I was leaving they told me they wanted the post that weekend…grrrr I was going away, but I did it as I want to keep the relationship we are building and I suspect she had a deadline without actually saying so.
Kelly
August 15, 2013 - 1:10 pmThanks so much Angie 🙂
That’s really cheeky! If there was a deadline they really should have told you before hand instead of springing it on you just before you go away! It’s so important that we all respect the other work/life that the other party has. Sometimes I wonder if brands/PR’s/SEO’s think that bloggers do nothing except sit around blogging all day and they are just waiting for something to fall into their laps so they have something to write about! Clearly not the case and I know many bloggers who have schedules that are filled out weeks in advance. It pretty unreasonable to expect something can just be done at the click of a finger!
Emma
August 25, 2013 - 5:16 pmThis is an interesting post!
I’ve only just started up blogging and so haven’t come across anything like this yet. But I’ve flirted around the edges of PR and SEO with previous jobs I’ve done – always as a side part, and never my main job.
So it’s been interesting to read, so I know in future how to avoid any hiccups! 🙂
Hmm maybe…